It looks like the number of nominations allowed for a map vote needs to be capped as well, it went onto a second page tonight. I'm sure there's a simple config for that, maybe something like 7 at most to keep it on a single page?
Looks like this is the cvar that needs tweaking for that, bagman. (part of the RTV module) // When to change the map after a successful RTV: // 0 - Instant, // 1 - Round End, // 2 - Map End // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "2.000000" sm_umc_rtv_changetime "0" I'd imagine that changing it to 0 (to have an instant change) would be the most popular, but I could also see players wanting to finish the current round before the map change happens. this one probably needs to be used as well // What to do with RTVs after another UMC vote has completed. // 0 - Allow, success = instant change, // 1 - Deny // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "1.000000" sm_umc_rtv_postvoteaction "0"
So just my two cents from playing tonight-- I noticed when we had the next map vote, someone playing spy (who I guess usually uses the '4' key to sap stuff) ended up voting for the #4 map option instead of being able to sap something. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I no how word good. I know it's all still being worked with, I just wanted to make sure this was a known thing, I guess. Otherwise I like the new process so far!
Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback! I'll just lay out some baseline technical info so people know what's being used right now. We're using these plugins for UMC currently: Code: 23:09:10 sm plugins list 23:09:10 [SM] Listing 49 plugins: *snip* 31 "[UMC] Admin Menu" (3.4.5) by Steell 32 "[UMC] Ultimate Mapchooser Core" (3.4.5) by Steell 33 "[UMC] Echo Nextmap" (3.4.5) by Steell 34 "[UMC] End of Map Vote Warnings" (3.4.5) by Steell 35 "[UMC] End of Map Vote" (3.4.5) by Steell 36 "[UMC] Map Commands" (3.4.5) by Steell 37 "[UMC] Nominations" (3.4.5) by Steell 38 "[UMC] Player Count Monitor" (3.4.5) by Steell 39 "[UMC] Player Limits" (3.4.5) by Steell 40 "[UMC] Post-Played Exclusion" (3.4.5) by Sazpaimon and Steell 41 "[UMC] Prefix Exclusion" (3.4.5) by Steell 42 "[UMC] Random Cycle" (3.4.5) by Steell 43 "[UMC] Rock The Vote" (3.4.5) by Steell 44 "[UMC] Time Limits" (3.4.5) by Steell 45 "[UMC] Vote Command" (3.4.5) by Steell 46 "[UMC] Map Weight" (3.4.5) by Steell 47 "Very Basic High Ping Kicker" (1.4) by msleeper 48 "Win panel for losing team" (1.3) by Reflex 49 <Failed> "[UMC] Map Rate Reweight" (3.4.5) by Steell Errors: umc-maprate-reweight.smx ([UMC] Map Rate Reweight): Plugin "Map Rate" is not loaded. The plugin is currently setup so that these maps won't show up in a vote, but I'm in favor of hiding these maps from being nominated. There's got to be a better way to hide them from being nominated than editing the mapcycle file though. Need to explore that one. I feel like this is something that is going to need the most fine tuning out of all of it. Here are the current settings with respect to runoff votes. These settings are the same between end of map votes and RTV, though they are able to be configured separately. Code: // Specifies what action to take if the vote doesn't reach the set theshold. // 0 - Do Nothing, // 1 - Perform Runoff Vote // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "1.000000" sm_umc_rtv_failaction "1" // Specifies what action to take if the runoff vote reaches the maximum amount of runoffs and the set threshold has not been reached. // 0 - Do Nothing, // 1 - Change Map to Winner // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "1.000000" sm_umc_rtv_runoff_failaction "1" // Specifies the maximum number of maps to appear in a runoff vote. // 1 or 0 sets no maximum. // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" sm_umc_rtv_runoff_max "3" // Specifies a maximum number of runoff votes to run for any given vote. // 0 disables runoff votes. // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" sm_umc_rtv_runoffs "1" // If the winning option has less than this percentage of total votes, a vote will fail and the action specified in "sm_umc_rtv_failaction" cvar will be performed. // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "1.000000" sm_umc_rtv_threshold ".20" <--- just realized this should be .20 and not 20! Maybe work better now? So those are the settings, maybe we can work from here to get some suggestions for runoffs? I think this can be done per map group, if so we should definitely do it. We're on it! We'll reach out once FTP access has been set up. The nominations is one of the coolest things for me. Makes navigation a lot easier. I'd like to play around with the tiered voting at some point too. It's an adjustment using the number keys, but I think having the first 2 keys blocked is a good compromise for people who just spam it. So far, many people have seen the extended number of nominations as a positive, right now the nominations are allocated thusly: Code: "umc_rotation" { "Symmetrical Control Points" { "maps_invote" "1" *snip* "Attack and Defend" { "maps_invote" "1" *snip* "Capture the Flag" { "maps_invote" "1" *snip* "Payload" { "maps_invote" "4" *snip* "Payload Race" { "maps_invote" "2" *snip* "King of the Hill" { "maps_invote" "1" *snip* "Holiday" { "maps_invote" "0" *snip* "Silly, Medieval, and Other" { "maps_invote" "0" *snip* "Halloween" { "maps_invote" "0" That makes for a total of 10 maps nominated. I looked, but didn't see any option to limit the total number of maps that can be nominated. Maybe we can wrap the entire maps file inside a maps_invote tag? I like the initial vote the way it is for now. I added extra time to look at it. Now we have 50 seconds as opposed to 30 before. Feels ok to me. Here are what the respective settings are for this: Code: // When to change the map after a successful RTV: // 0 - Instant, // 1 - Round End, // 2 - Map End // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "2.000000" sm_umc_rtv_changetime "0" // What to do with RTVs after another UMC vote has completed. // 0 - Allow, success = instant change, // 1 - Deny, // 2 - Hold a normal RTV vote // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "2.000000" sm_umc_rtv_postvoteaction "0" So it should be changing to the winning map after RTVing after a successful vote. I'll take a look at the logs and see if something wierd is happening. Yea I get what you're saying and that's one of the trade offs of the new voting system, we can't use the F keys for voting. There's a setting that blocks 1 and 2 so people don't accidentally vote on those numbers. We can increase it to 4 or 5 but I think that would block too many nomination slots. Looking forward to more discussion! Let's keep it moving!
A few more observations from my tinkering tonight after the server died down. 1. It seems to be hiding King of the Hill and Payload Race maps when the player minimums/maximums aren't reached, which is a good sign of things working, as going to most koth maps on a full server tends to empty it a bit. 2. It looks like the rtv/end of map vote will auto-fill to its pre-determined number of maps in vote based on the number of maps that are listed for each category as "maps_invote" For instance, I was alone on the server and it automatically had 1 A/D map, 1 5 Cp, 1 ctf, 4 pl, 1 koth, 1 don't change. Interestingly, I'd nominated billiards from the silly category, which didn't show up at all. I'm not quite sure what the cause or fix of this is yet, but I wanted to throw it out there in case someone else does. 3. I did not see instances of more than one run-off vote per map-cycle tonight. I'm not sure if something was changed to avoid this, or if it just didn't happen to come up while I was on. It does seem like limiting things to a single runoff vote would be the best combination of the simplest and option and best for player buy-in for maps. Simplest option in terms of coding and dealing with (only needing players to vote twice at most for a map). Best for player buy-in in the sense that players are more likely to accept going to a map, even if it isn't their favorite option, if it was down to a 50/50 choice and they had the option to choose one still. 4. There's 2 options to alleviate the issue of mis-clicking during voting for a map. First, the End of Map Vote Warning option could be implemented to give players a heads up that a vote was about to occur. Second, the !revote option is still viable for this plugin from what I've seen, so maybe increasing awareness of that option. As a side note I'd just say from my own experience that even with the old system, players would press f1 to get rid of the vote menu anyway, and it was a great way to get even unpopular maps played by just being the first to nominate something. 4a. This actually reminded me of this separate issue as I saw the map votes turning up in the same order of 1 A/D, 1 CP, 1 ctf, 4 pl, etc. for each map vote. It would probably be beneficial to have them randomized using the cvar below. // Specifies whether vote menu items are displayed in a random order. // - // Default: "0" // Minimum: "0.000000" // Maximum: "1.000000" sm_umc_endvote_menuscrambled "0"
This is the expected behavior. Agree, a good sign. This is working correctly, the silly category has "maps_invote" "0", so while able to be nominated, would never show up in a vote. I kind of like the behavior of filling in all of the map types even without a nomination. You see maps getting nominated that would never otherwise be. I changed some settings last night when I was writing my previous post. I was misinterpreting some settings, the number of runoffs, and the winning vote percentage. Good to see that it's working as intended finally. How are we feeling about 3 maps in a runoff vote? Seems like it's pretty good. I could tweak the setting for the pre-vote warning. Maybe something can be done to make it more noticeable? Great idea. I've changed this for both rtv and endvotes.
Myself and others have noticed that sometimes when we nominate a map, it doesn't show up in the vote (and that is with me checking multiple pages of nominations). I'm not sure if this is just due to nominations already being full or something else, but this seems like an issue that needs addressing. As to the benefit of having multiple pages of nominations, I've heard some complaints about it, so it may be at least worth discussing with folks (although I think most of it is them just not realizing there are multiple pages). What is the current cap set at? I also heard at least one suggestion that some maps (wubwub) might be better served if the time limitation was used to ensure that it wasn't played before a certain time in the evening. "min_time" "x" "max_time" "x" In the example, they use 1200 and 2359, meaning the map could only be played between noon to 11:59 pm
yeah im not the biggest fan of it being able to wrap around to a second page as it stands. even with the first two options blocked i figure there should be enough space on one page to get a good choice's worth of maps in. that being said if it's possible to edit the text that shows up in the prompt just mentioning the fact that there's multiple pages would probably be good enough.
This seems to be one of the major drawbacks of this plugin, the nominations system. So far I see no way to set a total number of nominations, communicate to users when nominations are full, or block categories which will be excluded from votes from being nominated. This appears to have been a design choice. Maps are chosen according to the criteria at the time the vote is called, and the nominations plugin just feeds the queue unconditionally. The only control I've found on the number of nominations is by category, using the maps_invote tag. The current settings for this are in my previous post. This limits us quite a bit. Tonight, I tried wrapping the entire maps list inside of a maps_invote tag and it broke nominations. I'm open to suggestions on this, the UMC thread at alliedmods.net is still active, but it's over 500 pages long and I've had my fill of looking through it. Absolutely can be done, but I will defer to the maps team for this type of suggestion. We're still working on setting up their FTP access but I think this type of granularity is a huge benefit of UMC. I'm open to limiting nominations to one page, provided it doesn't also limit the number of map categories. Maybe we need to condense some so we're able to get a diverse selection of map types. Again, this highlights the problems with the nominations system. I don't see any way to go ahead and set nomination limits for the overall map vote. We can do it by category and that's it. That's a good suggestion for editing the map voting text, I will look into it.
From my bouncing around on that forum thread and a few other sources, it seems like the best route would be your suggestion of using the maps_invote tag to limit the number of nominations that show up based on category. This doesn't seem like it would be too big of a problem on the surface at least. With the current numbers each vote would have 4 payload, 1 CP, 1 A/D, 1 CTF, 2 PLR, and 1 Koth (assuming less than 24 players). That largely seems to reflect broader player sentiments on how popular each map type is, although there will need to be some tweaking that could be done as people voice their own opinions on how many of each category there should be.(2 plr maps per vote may be a bit much with how few popular ones there are). I suppose the silly, medieval, and other category could be broken up a bit and redistributed to other categories, as well as a new category if necessary. If all the silly maps then have a chance of showing up in every vote, tags could be set to limit which ones would pop up randomly without someone actively nominating them. Either way, I'll keep looking around to see if there's an easier solution for limiting # of nominations.
Have there been any updates on getting Matt or someone FTP access to edit the umc_mapcycle.txt? I know that he's been updating and adding new maps for a few weeks now, but that hasn't been reflected in the nominate list. Also it may be time to hide the holiday and halloween categories, that would shrink the map type options back to a single page.
I'm able to update and upload the mapcycle file to the server. (TY Brood! ) I'll hide the Halloween and Holiday map sections. Should be a mapcycle file update later on tonight. It won't be ready for tonight's activities, but it'll be ready for tomorrow.
Was able to update, upload, and test the map cycle file after working with Brood over the weekend. (TY once again Brood ) Here's the current nominate list: "umc_rotation" { "Symmetrical Control Pointz" { "maps_invote" "1" "cp_abyss_b81" {} "cp_antiquity_rc1" {} "cp_axle_rc1" {} "cp_badlands_pro" {} "cp_craneway_b18c" {} "cp_croissant_final" {} "cp_follower" {} "cp_foundry" {} "cp_freight_final1" {} "cp_geomance_rc1" {} "cp_glassworks_rc6a" {} "cp_gothic" {} "cp_granary_pro_rc8" {} "cp_gullywash_final1" {} "cp_indulge" {} "cp_kalinka_rc6a" {} "cp_konkreet" {} "cp_labor" {} "cp_mainline_rc5" {} "cp_mannbase_b18a" {} "cp_metalworks" {} "cp_miningco_b4_fix" {} "cp_obscure_remake_ugc_rc2" {} "cp_powerhouse" {} "cp_process_final" {} "cp_prolane_v4" {} "cp_science2" {} "cp_shelter_rc2" {} "cp_snakewater" {} "cp_standin_final" {} "cp_sulfur_rc2" {} "cp_sunshine" {} "cp_toy_fort_alt2" {} "cp_vanguard" {} "cp_villa_b18" {} "cp_warmfront" {} "cp_warpath2_u4" {} "cp_well" {} "cp_yukon_final" {} } "Attack and Defend" { "maps_invote" "1" "cp_alloy_rc3" {} "cp_amaranth_rc1b" {} "cp_desperados_b2" {} "cp_dustbowl_pro_v2" {} "cp_egypt_final" {} "cp_ferrum_rc1" {} "cp_forest_shrine_a15" {} "cp_fulgur_rc2a" {} "cp_furnace_rc" {} "cp_glacier_rc6" {} "cp_gorge" {} "cp_gravelpit" {} "cp_hadal_b13a" {} "cp_haddou" {} "cp_hazyfort_rc6" {} "cp_ironworks_b2" {} "cp_mercenarypark" {} "cp_mossrock" {} "cp_mountainlab" {} "cp_overgrown_rc7b" {} "cp_osiris_b19" {} "cp_redfort_b3" {} "cp_rumble_rc5" {} "cp_sakura_hill_72c" {} "cp_scourge_b4" {} "cp_silvertrail_b5" {} "cp_skull_island_b2" {} "cp_steel" {} "cp_treehouse_b4" {} "cp_vigor_b2" {} } "Capture the Flag" { "maps_invote" "1" "ctf_2bine_v1" {} "ctf_2fort_neocity" {} "ctf_chaos" {} "ctf_convoy_storm_b1" {} "ctf_doublecross" {} "ctf_haarp" {} "ctf_hotspring_b3a" {} "ctf_landfall" {} "ctf_mach4" {"max_players" "20" } "ctf_pipedream_rc3" {} "ctf_powerhouse_night" {} "ctf_slate_b2" {} "ctf_snowdrift_b4a" {} "ctf_turbig" {} "ctf_turbine_pro_b1" {} "ctf_urbanbrook_rc" {} "ctf_vitalism_b2" {} } "Payload" { "maps_invote" "4" "pl_alpen_rc1" {} "pl_amaryllis_b2" {} "pl_angkor_rc2" {} "pl_auriferous_rc29" {} "pl_badwater_pro_v12" {} "pl_barnblitz_pro8" {} "pl_barnblitz_open" {} "pl_beerbowl_b7c" {} "pl_beerbowl_rc1" {} "pl_blastpitt_rc3" {} "pl_borneo" {} "pl_boundary_final1" {} "pl_boxcanyon_rc9" {} "pl_buzznest_b3" {} "pl_cactuscanyon_b2" {} "pl_cannonburg_b2" {} "pl_cashworks_final1" {} "pl_cavern_b7f" {} "pl_clifftop_b3" {} "pl_coldwater_rc4" {} "pl_cornfarm_rc" {} "pl_cranetop_b8" {} "pl_cybertech_b1" {} "pl_deadwood" {} "pl_edinbowl_b6b" {} "pl_enclosure_final" {} "pl_erosion_b1" {} "pl_escarpment_rc1" {} "pl_farmstead_rc1" {} "pl_frontier_final" {} "pl_gloryhole_b1" {} "pl_goldrush" {} "pl_goodwater" {} "pl_great_heights_b3" {} "pl_greenvalley2_b1" {} "pl_halfacre" {} "pl_hatfactory55" {} "pl_haywire_rc5" {} "pl_highwood_b19" {} "pl_hoodoo_final" {} "pl_humidity_rc5" {} "pl_lasti_rc6" {} "pl_lionroar_rc1" {} "pl_manngrove_rc5" {} "pl_mesaworks_rc3" {} "pl_metropolis_b5" {} "pl_midwest_b41" {} "pl_millstone_v4" {} "pl_mineshaft_final_rc12" {} "pl_moonbase_rc3" {} "pl_mountainside_rc2" {} "pl_narrows_a130" {} "pl_oasis_b4" {} "pl_olympia_a26" {} "pl_operandi_a14" {} "pl_outback_rc4" {} "pl_pharoah_rc1" {} "pl_pier" {} "pl_quagmire" {} "pl_rebirth_rc1" {} "pl_rivercrossing_rc2a" {} "pl_rocketravine_b6" {} "pl_rust" {} "pl_rustbelt_rc1" {} "pl_shoreleave_rc1" {} "pl_skirmish_b3" {} "pl_sludgepit_final4" {} "pl_snowycoast" {} "pl_spacewater_b5c" {} "pl_stallberg_rc3" {} "pl_summercoast_b7" {} "pl_swiftwater_final1" {} "pl_swiftwater_pro_rc1" {} "pl_tavern_b1" {} "pl_thundermountain" {} "pl_upward" {} "pl_upward_pro_b2b" {} "pl_vanishingpoint" {} "pl_vesper_b4" {} "pl_vigil_rc7" {} "pl_volcanic_a26" {} "pl_warpath_b7" {} "pl_watertrack_b9" {} "pl_yosai_b3a" {} "mpl_losthorizon_b10" {} } "Payload Race" { "maps_invote" "2" "default_min_players" "12" "plr_animus_a8" {} "plr_bananabay" {} "plr_fishladder3" {} "plr_frostfell_b2" {} "plr_guavagulf_a7b" {} "plr_hierarch_rc2b" {} "plr_highwind_a5" {} "plr_hightower" {} "plr_nightfall_final" {} "plr_panic_b2" {} "plr_pipeline" {} "plr_solitude_b1" {} "plr_upward_rc2" {} "plr_valentine_b2" {} "plr_yuno_b1" {} "pl_waste_v2" {} } "King of the Hill" { "maps_invote" "1" "default_max_players" "24" "koth_ahau_rc2" {} "koth_arctic_b3" {} "koth_brazil" {} "koth_coalplant_b7" {} "koth_coulee_b4_fix" {} "koth_chasm_b1" {} "koth_dewm_rc1" {} "koth_databank_rc2" {} "koth_dockyard" {} "koth_garbage_day" {} "koth_hangar_rc2" {} "koth_harvest" {} "koth_highpass" {} "koth_kemptown_rc1" {} "koth_lakeside" {} "koth_lazarus" {} "koth_lighthouse_rc5" {} "koth_moonshine" {} "koth_nerve" {} "koth_nucleus" {} "koth_occult_rc6" {} "koth_oilfield" {} "koth_viaduct" {} "koth_sawmill" {} "koth_slaughter_b2a" {} "koth_suijin" {} "koth_synthetic_rc6a" {} "koth_waste" {} "koth_wetrock_b12" {} } "Silly, Medieval, and Other" { "maps_invote" "0" "billiards" {} "cp_burghausen_rc1" {} "cp_degrootkeep" {} "cp_kakariko_a3" {} "cp_kuriast" {} "cp_orange_final" {} "cp_orangezone_45" {} "cp_redfort_b5" {} "cp_rooftime_nm3" {} "cp_wetlands" {} "ctf_darktower" {} "ctf_eggwar_b2" {} "dom_canalzone2_b4" {"min_players" "24"} "dom_cliffhanger_b11" {"min_players" "24"} "fith_boxing_b2a" {} "koth_blast_b3p" {} "koth_dropdeadfred_v3" {} "koth_falling" {} "koth_lolcano_b3" {} "koth_megaman6" {} "koth_sandvich_b1" {} "koth_skywalker1" {} "koth_tf2craps_b1" {} "koth_wubwubwub_remix_vip" {} "pd_elvvis2" {} "pd_ritual_a7" {} "pd_watergate" {} "pl_minepit" {} "pl_yamashiro_medieval_b3" {} "plr_highertower" {} "plr_whalerace_a4a" {} } }
So it looks like the issue of RTVing in the middle of a map vote, or something like that, is still causing the occasional problem. Basically the RTV is successful, but you aren't able to actually change the map until the time runs out. Maybe these commands could be tweaked to fix that somehow? In regards to the number of maps showing up in the vote. It might be worth at least giving the more restricted option a try for a day or 2 and see if players prefer that. In that case, this cvar would need to be changed This would need to be changed in both the endvote.cfg and the rockthevote.cfg
